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标题: 陈丹青:我妈在美国被人推了两次,都是中国人推的! [打印本页]
作者: evians 时间: 23-3-2015 01:25
标题: 陈丹青:我妈在美国被人推了两次,都是中国人推的!
2011年8月24日。陈丹青接受了南都记者专访。
知识分子
南都:你一直通过言论、文章在发出自己的声音,你觉得自己肩负怎样的责任?
陈丹青:我从来没有想过我能灌输思想,我从网友回馈上知道,他们对我的言论不感兴趣,但是他们从我的言论里看到原来可以这样来看城市建设,这样来看大学教育,这样来看社会上发生的一些事情。只要有一点点破口就好了。
南都:近年来,在很多公共事件上听到你的声音,是什么让你发声机会变多了?
陈丹青:其实我很少曝光,一年下来只有两三次这样的活动,像这次获奖,来参加南方阅读盛典颁奖典礼,我一定会来。这是我本人的书,而且是讲鲁迅的书被选上,我视为一种荣耀,是读者对我的一个肯定。
南都:现在一旦发生大事,就会有“公知”出来说话,你如何看知识分子的曝光度?
陈丹青:我不觉得中国有多少知识分子,因为公共空间都很有限,一个可以称得上是社会的空间,严格说还没有。现在媒体会让大家误会,以为有舆论空间,有公共知识分子。公共知识分子是独立的,他不拿谁的钱,他只拿公司的钱或者雇佣他写稿的钱。可是我所知道的中国的公共知识分子基本上(供职于)大学和媒体、电视台,他实际上是拿官饷的,所以他独立不起来。
南都:在你眼中,公共知识分子应该是怎样的形象?
陈丹青:我很珍惜、很尊重目前被认为是公共知识分子的那些人,比如秦晖。当然这包括一部分网民。(现在)还没有一个自由的空间,(让)这些人能够相对独立地发言。能够有声音发出来,这是多么珍贵!况且我不太在乎他有多少知识,我还是在乎言论空间。
大学教育
南都:这些年来,你一直为艺术教育发出声音,你如何看待全国的艺术教育?
陈丹青:像美院是艺术学院,它是自由散漫的,这个稍微好一点,但是它有一个进口和一个出口卡死大家,那就是考试。我说的不是英语考试,主要是政治考试。
南都:怎样的教育算是好的?
陈丹青:第一不要太相信学校。学校只是让你度过青春期的时间。第二个真正教你的未必是学校,更不是教学大纲,而是周围的好学生,但更重要的一是来自校外的资讯,在网络上,在图书馆,在书店,在美术馆,在画廊,信息远远多于教学大纲能够给你的,所以聪明的孩子自然就会受到影响。
我认为大学四年变得越来越不重要了,只是你对爹妈有一个交代,我上过大学了。问题是现在还要交好多钱。但是你根本不要指望你在教室里变成一个艺术家,你必须走出校门。
南都:有人说我们现在处于信仰缺失的时代,你怎么看待?
陈丹青:我们现在的情况是比信仰缺失更糟糕,西方也有信仰缺失,为什么呢?虽然西方有一部分传统价值观从来没有缺失过,就是基督教、天主教,包括伊斯兰教,像日本的佛教都在。但由于文明的进程,让大部分人从宗教禁锢里面走出来,尤其是科学家和科学主义,经过一两百年的启蒙运动,后果是西方同样也信仰真空。民主自由存在负面效果,比如离婚率、犯罪,还有未婚怀孕种种的问题。西方的问题跟中国完全是两样的,(他们是)在获得自由以后,发现生活的重心和价值观不再像传统社会那么凝固。
给年轻人的话
南都:你曾说过80后、90后成长后,整个社会还是会有希望的?
陈丹青:有希望。我对年轻人只有两个要求,一个要求是饭碗第一,一定要自立,不要不现实。年轻人大学毕业以后,你其实面临很现实的一个处境,你的饭碗最重要了,不要把饭碗砸了;第二个要求就是在这个前提下,尽量不要受这个社会坏的影响。因为人在年轻的时候,多少总是正直的,总是有冲动、有理想、向善的。三十岁以后,要么是平庸,要么就转向恶,就开始变成一个社会的帮凶,进入这个机器。
南都:80后、90后属于最交接的状态?
陈丹青:最交接,因为等他们成长的时候,已经进入这么一个双重机制。我的前半生是100%的集权,后半生我忽然跑到美国去了,100%的自由,所以资本主义的好处和坏处,我都尝试过了。坏处就是竞争,有生存压力。好处就是讲理,有保障。
我母亲现全靠美国的福利制度生活。她每个月最低有700多美金的收入,所有的医疗都免费,比中国的一个白领收入还要高。你能想象吗?她没有为美国增加过一分钱的财富,可是她享受美国福利制度。她在美国住了20年了,我试图让她回国,我在上海给她买了房子,她待了三个月就坚持要回美国。因为她到处被人推,在马路上、到医院里、进电梯、上车、走路都被人推,她说她在美国生活20年,只被人推了两次,回头一看都是中国人推的。
作者: jason-xu 时间: 23-3-2015 01:55
呵呵
作者: 824425358 时间: 24-3-2015 07:24
我母亲现全靠美国的福利制度生活。她每个月最低有700多美金的收入,所有的医疗都免费,比中国的一个白领收入还要高。 这句话是不是值得怀疑?
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